Adulting10mo
by SparklyCupcakeConsultant
Top comment
People are paid proportionate to the value they bring. Women's sports simply doesn't generate enough money. Wo...
ZestyQuokka
[Long post] Pay Parity - and it isn't just about the pay
This post references and continues the discussion on Rafael Nadal's comment about women getting paid more in fashion.
As someone with 50% of their career in fashion, I can say it's not just modeling (that's the image people have). There are many industries within fashion – e-commerce, manufacturing, modeling, boutiques, etc
Fashion is labor-intensive, so competition drives down pay. Yes, there are more women in fashion, not necessarily earning more. It's a loop – more women want to work where other women are, even if the money is less. There's a sense of security and comfort.
A huge part of fashion works in manufacturing, you know, the clothes we wear. So many women work at the junior level, running around the factory floors getting things done. They are paid 10-15k a month. The men are paid about 20-25k starting salary. I had 3 girls and 1 boy in my team; they managed on-ground ops for different brands. But when there's night overtime in the factory, who stays late to oversee the work? The boy! And who got the orders out "working overtime" on these brands – the boy! Who deserves a raise – obviously the boy!
Lack of appreciation in words and money, physically draining work (more stories there), fewer promotions, and male-dominated labor that doesn't want to "listen to women," combined with family pressure to get married - all these lead women to drop out of the workforce.
Even if you want to talk only about modeling, women models get paid more than male models. There's a reason here – who do you remember watching on FTV during childhood? How many of you took the risk of putting FTV on to watch male models? Women are paid more because they sell more.
Also, the models are just one, just one part of the fashion show. There's an entire team of underpaid people running around, fixing things last minute, ensuring the show is a success. Huge brands like Sabyasachi and Manish Malhotra pay 25-30k to NIFT Fashion Design grads, even in Mumbai.
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GroovyWaffle
Stealth10mo
Pay in every industry is directly proportional to the value you create, and the minimum your employer can get away with while paying you. That’s what we call the market. This is more or less fair, and while many understand this, they grossly overestimate their own contribution compared to others.
Worse of all, they equate pay with time/effort they put in, which you see in so many posts here about tech salaries.
My gripe is that when you go to make that point, many pseudo feminists would come in and react emotionally to this line of thinking. Then you invent words like unpaid work, emotional labor, while not even accounting for the same by others. Ideally people should understand this or not argue for convenience masked as a feminist or equality argument.
Enthu is kind enough to concede where she thinks credit is due and who deserves it. I know it’s setting higher expectations, but would appreciate if you also speak up when you see someone blatantly misusing labels of equality and feminism for their own person convenience or gain, as in the end it hurts the credibility of the movement.
ZestyQuokka
Hinge10mo
I have learned this first hand from a business perspective in founder's office role. Too many things but value created is prime.
I try to speak up when Feminism is portrayed wrong, it just washes over any good efforts. I know when to speak and when to take it as a joke. Some people cannot make the difference and try to start a revolution everywhere 😅
ZestyQuokka
Hinge10mo
TLDR:
• The fashion industry doesn't pay well. Only the top 1% makes money, like all other industries. • You get paid if you can sell. (This is a huge factor in POSH cases, but that's for another day.) • Women generally don't take risks or demand career growth, which is a huge factor in low pay (I'm guilty too).
P.S. Some of you must have read the thread I'm talking about. @UmadBro was kind enough to find data to support Nadal, which I have explained the reasons for above. There were some 'mantally the sick boys' who just wanted to enjoy triggering people on something that doesn't even affect them. Satan wishes them well!
GroovyBoba
Women are paid more because they sell more.
Isn't that the whole answer? If you can sell more or are expected to sell more, then you get paid more. Nadal gets paid more because people watch/follow him more then his female counterparts.
ZestyQuokka
Hinge10mo
Yes that is the answer. What Nadal said was factually incorrect, hence this. This is not industry specific
QuirkyWaffle
Stealth10mo
You said "Women are paid more because they sell more". That's exactly the point Nadal was trying to make. In tennis and most sports in general, men are paid more because they sell more... which answers the interviewer's question
ZestyQuokka
Hinge10mo
Only in models, doesn't hold true for modelling and definitely not fashion. I wanted to factually correct Nadal's statement, not refute the meaning behind it. I agree with it.
SqueakyQuokka
Microsoft10mo
I don't quite follow the distinction you're trying to make.
Sports is full of underpaid people too. In fact, sport is full of unpaid aspirants who do the bulk of manual labour. I speak as someone who has been a national level basketball player and currently work with one of the largest fashion brands in the world. I and other young players used to pour acid to clean the entire concrete basketball court at the age of 11. The acid splashes burnt our hands and legs and often our clothes too.
I play club level cricket (corporate leagues) too. The groundsmen have to ensure that there is not a single pebble and the ground is watered and soft. They keep it clean in the scorching heat and all they get is a paltry ₹8k per month and a hut outside the ground.
I feel you are comparing grassroot level fashion to top level sport. The apple to apple comparison Nadal makes is top folks in sports with those in fashion. In sports, these are players whereas in fashion these are models. In both, it's the brand value that drives up their pay.
The universe operates in an equilibrium and every human is doing their part.
Any disturbance to this equilibrium will be temporary and the natural forces will try to restore this order. If there is, in fact, pay discrimination for equal work, then the market forces will try to exploit it and everyone will hire only women. Do you see that happening around?
You may have heard the saying- If we threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd take our problems back.
The competent understand this and do whatever it takes to survive or overcome, whereas the others play victim or gender politics. That's why you don't see the female players themselves complaining but the mediocre people around them who do.
ZestyQuokka
Hinge10mo
You are talking what I am trying to say. Only top 1% of people make money in any industry. Nadal did a casual comment on pay Parity in sports and fashion, which is wrong on many levels.
The last paragraph- I agree! Some do voice these concerns, but don't look at why of it. It is as simple and really nothing to do with gender
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