Update: Firing an employee after maternity
Last month I posted about firing a female employee after maternity that created a debate: https://share.gvine.app/fdu9iQyCrQP6Ehn89
For anyone interested in how things turned out, here it is...
TLDR: Employee/new mom filed an FIR, police closed it after she admitted she quit after we tried to put her on a PIP. (In FIR she said she was wrongly terminated)
The women's commission of India summoned me after and it was an experience! I got scolded for about 2h by four women... but in the end they just scolded me like angry teachers? I guess they tried to give the lady some satisfaction by humiliating me. Pretty sad if that's all they can do to represent women with genuine cases.
Overall the average grapevine user said I was in the wrong for putting a new mom on a PIP, regardless of performance before and after pregnancy.
Most critical folks told me I should've informed the employee about performance issues before maternity. Lawyers say I made the right choice and protected the company.
It's a bit messed up that laws designed to protect women at work end up making things worse for them. Because of legal fear we went directly to a formal PIP with recorded calls with HR, the direct manager and others refused to do anything without legal advice. But in the end, she filed a case, so perhaps the cold approach recommended by lawyers was sadly correct.
Lastly, I finally saw that outside of my own business echo chamber (both men and women business people), society holds pregnant women and new moms valuable above all else. Someone like me who is a bachelor & slave to capitalism has a totally different set of values, as such some people think I'm fair game for insults. But I hope by making products of value I can make a positive impact in my own way.
Thanks for providing your perspectives.
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Thank you for this closure. Though it is about perspectives, business is also side that needs to be taken care of.
I recently read about a man being told 'his position is no longer required' a week after he informed his wife was pregnant. So probably it is not about gender.
Also, it was the 55L CTC for me. As a woman who understands business, I felt your perspective was more weighing
I also saw that on Twitter, most people criticised the female bosses. But most likely they knew the layoff was coming and decided to let the guy know after he was back.
I guess most folks don't see the business/legal perspective.
I think twitter criticism of female bosses come from a different place. Media loves scrutinizing them and criticizing every move. Every journalist is hoping to uncover next Theranos. People just pick up on small things which do not fit their caricature of a female boss. And it cascades into something big.
Honestly, as a lawyer, I'd say this was handled very well by you
Maybe the women's commission scolding could've been avoided, but glad it worked out for you! If you were from a district known for closing civil litigation cases, I'd have recommended you counter sue for damages, but you don't seem like a vindictive person to me and it seems like you want it all to be over
Thanks, the legal fees ended up being around 2L. Our lawyer said we can claim damages. But I suspected the lawyer's incentive was billable hours vs getting closure.
I don't know how the women's commission could be avoided, they summoned me after the ex employee submitted a complaint and didn't seem interested in getting my side of the story, or looking at any evidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the lawyer intended to do and honestly unless the court or bench in your district was friendly or very proactive, you'd have been stuck in litigation for eons... If you still wanted to recover, you can explore alternate means, like suing her but then taking the case to mediation or lok adalat (but then again, you never know what your lawyer might try to pull in order to pad up billing time)
With respect to the Women's Commission order, I think your lawyer should've accompanied you and you should've been allowed to have/guided into submitting a written response to the complaint rather than forced to make a physical appearance
I'm really sorry you had that experience, but that's literally the commission's job, if you make a complaint to them, they've got to show they took action, see? How else do you retain your seat and funding 🙄🙄
In any case, I'm glad you got out of it well, and honestly as the woman in this case - so stupid of her, she must've incurred the legal fees too and what was the point of it if she was going to admit she made a false complaint? 🙄🙄 Some people, honestly!
Thank you for this wholesome closure. I appreciate you recognise the difference in values and attribute it to the stage you are in your life.
"It's a bit messed up that laws designed to protect women at work end up making things worse for them." I read up on maternity leaves around the world. Turns out India has the highest number of compulsory paid maternity leaves and ironically 0 paternity leaves. This makes it worse for women as employers will discriminate. Equality is a long way to go.
The employee did work full time for 6 months, taking 2 days off average per week and got paid for 14 months (6m paid+6months ML+2m severance). For a total of 69L cost. There was a further 2L in legal fees to handle the case she put on us after she quit. I don't know how a smaller business could survive this.
Women will always be 50% of the voters, as such laws are made to represent their interests. The problem is that when it goes too far, it encourages employers to discriminate in the interest of self preservation.
Now in every background check of that lady this case will come up and it's a huge red flag for her with future employers.
Let others take a lesson to swallow your pride when required.
Background checking end goal is not to figure out who was right in past but rather to figure out who started the drama. Once a drama starter always one.
Hey, it's great to hear that the situation was resolved.
But just wanted to point one point out that was part of the replies to the original post which will also be a factor going forward for you and your company.
Inaction. I can't claim to know if consistent feedback would have led to a different outcome, but that's what good employers do. This time inaction put you in a particularly murky situation, but every time you decide to act against your judgement, you sow this. Sometimes it may come to nothing, sometimes it would lead to this. Your employees will respect you, if not necessarily like you, if you are open with providing and receiving feedback.
Again, no issues with your conduct at any time in this, just pointing out something that would be good for everybody.
Yes, looking back I realised the laws of the land made me act against my own sense of good management.
Once a person announces they are pregnant, it would be grounds for a discrimination case if I started questioning their current and previous job performance.
Realistically, the window to provide some kind of feedback was around 4 months, and I should've acted faster. CxO, VP, Director titles be damned.
That's fair. Experience makes us better.
@incognito Congratulations for a successful closure. My 2 cents: you should’ve asked the 4 women commissioners on how to approach such cases for the future. Getting that info from the commission would have been worth it’s weight in gold.
A simple question would’ve shut them up: how do you fire irresponsible under-performers who don’t inform you of maternity till last moment?
Their recommendation was to give more warning before a PIP.
But the reality is that I think they wouldve scolded me in any case.
They did not hold back on name calling, threats, and using derogatory language. I think they would make terrible managers themselves, nor did they have any experience, so would not take their advice.
They did not drive any outcome for the ex employee, in the end "mandated" that I pay FnF. Like I was not going to do it anyway.
Really great update. Want to Commend you for putting this with a variety of perspectives.
Genuinely eye-opening. Lends a very unique perspective.
Great to know that you followed due process.
Adding in there are mandated leave sof more than a year in Germany France and other European countries...
I am sure OP would be the first in line to be a citizen of these countries and enjoy all the benefits and explain how good work life balance is there . .
And would definitely send his kids to study there ... But here will take advantage and express he does not know why there is a maternity/paternity leave
If you knew who I was in real life, I think you would not make all these assumptions about me. You are very off target, check your bias!